Lookit this!

[croakintowd]

Hello, I need a little help. I bought this buggy a few weeks ago, and have been going over it, "discovering" things...
The project started out with the idea that I would remove the transaxle and replace it with a better one. This one has 2 bad synchros and a serious leak... I could fix the leak, but I'd still have two bad synchros, so I'm gonna exchange it for a good used one (When I find one). Also the buggy sits too low in the back, so I was going to re-index the spring plates.
When I pulled the engine and looked at the transaxle, two things seemed wrong.. It looks like the transaxle is sitting too low in the horns.. It looks like the guy solid mounted the transaxle, and I wonder if he did it correctly? It seems like the thickness of the trans mounts would have been necessary to maintain the proper height... It appears to be an after market saddle in there, without the strap that would go over the bell housing...
So, whattya think?? I suspect the builder has the buggy sitting so low in the back as that was how he thought he'd prevent the axle housings and boots from hitting the horns. If I re-index it as is, there will be interference...

Thanks in advance!!!!

[Tom-Kathleen]

Looks normal height to me. Tom

[lastmanx]

it is mounted correctly. it is the aftermarket boots that look or are wrong. if you put original style boots it will look better,but it will still touch frame horn. keep the solid mount and make sure the front trans mount is solid. indexing the spring plates is a good idea, it will not change how the boots sit on frame horns(changing to rubber mounts wont change how boot sits on frame horn either ). get a Bentley service manual they have good pictures on what things on a vw should look like. solid mounts should be put on every buggy, they never fail or give problems. read the how to build buggy book to understand more . look at and learn as much as you can about vws so you wont waste time trying to fix problems that don't exist, and you can fix those that need fixing. a new or rebuilt transaxle is easy to find,just money is only issue. understand different years can differ. understand swing axle lengths differ also depending on chassis years. you don't need to change axles unless you have problems with them. as to trans strap, it is nice to have but not necessary, what you have works great. good luck,been there done that.

[jsturtlebuggy]

I highly recommend against solid transaxle mounts on a street driven buggy. Even with Loctite and nylock nuts things will loosen up over time from the harmonic vibrations the drive train causes.
Been there, done that too many times.
Plus your own body will feel better during and after driving.

Richard, the axle boots look ok and those do work and can actually last longer then some of the rubber split boots. I have used them and still have a pair on a sand buggy I have.
Just remember to set seam at 10 or 2 O'clock and use a little silicone on split area where clamps go.

[jsturtlebuggy]

Here a couple pictures of the left and right axle boot on my sand buggy. There is clearance.
Richard your boot look line where the seams are being straight up has cause problems.

[lastmanx]

I have never had a problem with solid mounts, but seems others have. I found a comfortable seat and low tire pressure compensate for harsh ride. although I don't put a lot of miles on my buggy yearly, 30,000 miles in 15 years and all bolts still tight. no doubt rubber mounts are softer than steel, its a personal preference. good luck with your rebuild.

[croakintowd]

Hello again, folks.
Thanks for the help!

[5150bossman]

We went with the Gene Berg HD rubber mounts and generic padded trans straps front and back. The ride is better than the solid mounts, and the HD rubber wont break down like the stock mounts or pull through like the red silicone mounts. After 12 years, still no problems. One thing I did notice in Joe's pics, the gap at the frame horns does vary a bit from car to car. I have seen tighter gaps to the point of pinching the boots, especially if the spring plates are cranked down very far to raise the back of the buggy.

[croakintowd]

Hi 5150 Bossman,
This buggy has the rear spring plates indexed very low, in my opinion. It is so low that the previous owner installed some coil over shocks. I think he was hoping to raise the rear end a bit. It's so low that the body rubs the rear tires on small bumps.
On my other buggy (IRS) I did install the heavy duty trans mounts and there has been no problem.
I bought this buggy to fix up a litle and just use until I get my "other" buggy built. I hope to sell this one when the other project is done.
Since this transaxle has a number of mechanical issues, I thought I'd just exchange it out for another good used one.
Like you said, I thought that if I re-indexed the rear spring plates to raise the rear of the car, that would cause a greater angle of departure of the axle from the trans and that would decrease the clearance... I'm going to compare stock parts against what I have in there now, just to see what I can see, ya know?
A friend suggested adding small spacers between the transaxle bell housing and the trans mount. I like that idea. That would also kick the back of the engine up a bit for clearance. (Albeit very little)....
I'll keep fooling with it until I make myself happy, I guess.
I was kinda hoping that someone would see the pictures and find an error I could correct.... But it looks like it's just another buggy build, with some unforeseen challenges.....LOL.

Thanks again

[jsturtlebuggy]

Richard,
You can always heat and beat the area with a big hammer for more clearance for the axle tubes.
With out seeing your front mount or a wider shot of trans mounting in chassis cannot tell if trans is mounted correctly.
If the front of trans was down (causing front of trans to be lower then stock) it could be a one thing why you are seeing the boots sitting on the frame horns.
Another possibility is that the frame horns are bent down in the back. Gene Berg and others found out that the frame horns could be bent down from drag racing. Their fix to keep it from happening was to run a support from body underneath rear of engine case. It is a piece of 1-1/2in .125" (and some are .188"wall) thick wall square tubing and attached with long bolts mounted to bumper mounts on the Bug body.
In a buggy you could make something or buy what they call a Kafer mount. This attaches to the rear shock towers with a cross bar between them and two bars coming from it down to the large bolts holding the rear trans cradle mount to frame horns. You could even attach it the solid mount you have in the picture.

I have seen the stock frame horns actually break apart at the spot welds when solid mounts were used and the rear of the frame horns were not supported.

I made up this rear sub frame on the Kick Out to support the frame horns and for the upper bumper mounts. I copied close to what is on my Manxter Dual Sport for the rear support.
The Manxter 2+2 also uses a rear frame horn support that ties into the rear of the roof support cage (roll cage). It does not have the tubing going to the mount above the spring plate like the Dual Sport has.

[croakintowd]

Thanks, Joseph....

I didn't get a chance today, but I'm gonna compare the Tow'd and this buggy. I'm gonna measure a few things that (I think) will tell the tale.....

One thing I noticed is there seems to be several types of boots... Some are sorta pyramid shaped, and some (mine) are not. Mine are the same diameter from one end to the other....The tapered ones would seem to be a better choice....

I know I have the stuff around here somewhere to mount this thing with stock parts... Maybe that's a good place to start.
I kinda wonder if this is a bus to bug adapter? I'll know more in a day or two...

Thanks folks!!

[ManxBug]

One thing I noticed is there seems to be several types of boots... Some are sorta pyramid shaped, and some (mine) are not. Mine are the same diameter from one end to the other....The tapered ones would seem to be a better choice....

I noticed that you have a swing axle and the picture of the smaller boots above are on an IRS tranny. Don't confuse these as interchangeable.

[croakintowd]

Thanks!

I notice that there's a "bolt on" boot that looks like the original German one piece boots...I might try those....

[Willstang]

I think there is something to be said for the thickness of the rubber trans mounts that would add to the height of the axles above the frame horns. My busted up buggy had all three trans mounts broken when I got it which also caused the nose cone to break off in the front. With fresh mounts or solid mounts of the proper thickness you will more than likely be just fine.

Here is a pic of it with the broken trans mounts. New mounts are the same thickness as these old broken pair. With a pair of new boots and mounts you should have plenty of clearance.





Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[croakintowd]

Thanks!

The previous owner added an after market solid rear trans mount. all my other buggies have stock, but heavy duty mounts, but they are all IRS.. This is my first Swing Axle buggy.

I thought I would have had time to go out and unravel and "mysteries" in the trans mount by now, but life keeps getting in the way....LOL.

I've decided that if I keep the solid mount, I'll add some spacers between the trans and the mount. Maybe 3/8" to 1/2"...

Currently, the axle doesn't contact the horn,so I guess that, technically, there is plenty of clearance.... But the boot rests so heavily on the horn that it seems like it would wear through quickly. Like I said in a previous post, the only boots with a smaller profile are the original one piece boots, or the boots someone is making that look the same as the original German editions, but are split.

Once life leaves me alone and I can get out there and fool around with it, hopefully I'll know more...

I appreciate everyone's input and comments!