Shock survey!!!

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jhkinca
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Shock survey!!!

Post by jhkinca »

What shocks are you running front and rear?
I need to replace the old tired shocks and looking for feedback and opinions.
Stock link pin front and swing axle rear; we will use on all terrains (forest, desert, dunes,and street).

I did just order a copy of "Baja Bugs and Buggies" in an effort to better educate myself :?
John & Sonya Kieslich
lastmanx
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Re: Shock survey!!!

Post by lastmanx »

stock beetle shocks for front,(cheap and weak). used weak shocks are recommended if using all the torsion springs in front end(none removed). the front end with all torsion springs were designed for the full heavy beetle body; which you don't have, so it is already stiffer by not having that weight. some would remove a few leaves to soften it. but it is not as easy as just removal; you need to cut and epoxy the stack(believe is covered in history section). so most don't do it. therefore a soft shock absorber is used, some would use a weaker used shock as to not stiffen the ride. I have found new basic low cost shocks work fine. do not use gas ,or coil over shocks in front they will give hard uncomfortable ride. the rear also stock shocks for same reason of less body weight. I have used cheap coil over shocks in rear they work fine, they are adjustable and I use on lowest setting. I use them because they look cool.(the chrome is poor quality and will rust instantly so I paint them first. if you have weak rear torsion springs a high adjustment on them will fix ride height. but you should adjust the spring plates as it is the correct fix for sagging ass. the book you just bought will explain how to do it. read the book all the way through you will be amazed at the simple solutions.have fun, keep smiling
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jhkinca
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Re: Shock survey!!!

Post by jhkinca »

OldManx;

Are those 4600 series Bilsteins? Is your buggy street only or do you get off road?
OldManx wrote:BIELSTEIN'S....front & rear

4512 2307

& PLEASE ...no one tell me how BAD nitrogen charged shocks are. You are just repeating someone else's stories. I use these & stand by these as they WORK for my set-up & driving locations & style!! thank you
Also I am a retired "wrench" with 54 years of "practical experience" with these remarkable cars...........so flame on................................................
John & Sonya Kieslich
ManxManiac
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Re: Shock survey!!!

Post by ManxManiac »

Very good answer OldManx!!!
On our buggy Xena, I went a little different direction with the front & rear shocks & they have worked real well for 16+ years & 87,000 miles!!!
The King & Linkpin frontend on Xena was "modified" by her original builder back in 1968!!! They "softened up" the front by removing &/or cutting some of the "torsion leaves"!!! I've never had it apart, so I do not know to what extent they did the frontend!!! It is "soft", but works real well!!! LOL When I rebuilt Xena, I bought & installed a new set of standard type "oil filled" shocks from Sears that were on sale for $5.99 each!!! LOL I could of had them installed by Sears for "free", but Xena wasn't completely together yet!!! LOL Those "el cheapo" shocks have worked perfect for me & my style of driving whether on streets around town or running 70 mph down the freeway!!! LOL
On the rear, Xena still had her "factory original", 22mm torsion bars in her swingaxle system!!! With the KYB Gas-A-Just shocks that came on her, the rear suspension was sagging a bit, until I removed them & the rear dropped a bit more!!! I like a soft supple ride, so I left the rear torsion bars adjusted where the were & installed a set of Gabriel Hi-Jacker air shocks!!! Once again, for my style & type of driving they worked real well!!! I've run anywhere from the minimum recommended 25 psi, all the way up to 190 psi the maximum recommended psi!!!
About 14 years ago, I found a set of stock 22mm rear torsion bars, out of a 1966 VW Beetle swingaxle torsion that only had a hair over 5000 miles on it, before it was stolen & somewhat stripped!!! I bought them, but still haven't installed them!!! LOL "Someday"!!! Of course when I do get around to installing them, I'll probably stop using the air shocks & use the "almost new" pair of KYB Silver GR-2 shocks that I bought at the flea market awhile back for a "dollar"!!! LOL They were only mounted for a few hundred miles & the guy didn't like them & installed something else!!!
So... like the old saying goes... "Different strokes for different folks"... what one person likes in shocks, another person won't!!! But it's good to find out what folks like & use, then make an educated decision!!!
Important note ... DO NOT USE the shocks that I believe EMPI makes, with a "coil spring" over it on the front or rear!!! You'll just be throwing away good money that can be used on some other part for your buggy!!! Regardless of which of the 3 settings you adjust them to, they are still to stiff & they usually do not last very long!!! I know guys that have run them on the front &/or the rear & when mounted on the rear, under full compression", they rubbed on the axle tube or the shock mount until a hole wore through letting all of the oil leak out!!!
Michael Cates
ManxManiac
#958
Ventura, CA
Original Meyers Manx "Xena"
M1609C8S22
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jhkinca
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Re: Shock survey!!!

Post by jhkinca »

Manxmaniac,

Thanks for the response. I'm for sure going with KYB gas adjust or the 4600 Bilsteins in the rear. I'm still undecided on the front. Currently the front is soft; I can easily push down and bounce the front down about 2". Might go with the KYB GR2 up front.
John & Sonya Kieslich
ManxManiac
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Location: Ventura, CA

Re: Shock survey!!!

Post by ManxManiac »

IMO... those 4600 Bilsteins are a better choice than the KYB Gas-A-Just. I've used many different KYBs in the past on a variety of vehicles & some Bilsteins too & the Bilsteins always seemed to help provide a little better & smoother ride!!!
Michael Cates
ManxManiac
#958
Ventura, CA
Original Meyers Manx "Xena"
M1609C8S22
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jhkinca
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Re: Shock survey!!!

Post by jhkinca »

Thanks for all the input. In an effort to be conservative on price, I went with the KYB GR2 up front and the KYB Gas adjust on the rear. Only tested on the street so far but the ride is not as harsh as expected. So far so good.
John & Sonya Kieslich
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enesset
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Re: Shock survey!!!

Post by enesset »

'69 pan with ball joint front end.

Running Bilstein reservoir shocks upfront and in the rear.

I called summit racing and had them price match Eshocks.com...free shipping....no tax....awesome price.

46724671467046744673
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jhkinca
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Re: Shock survey!!!

Post by jhkinca »

2 years later ----- I still run the KYB Gas-a-Just in the rear and they are perfect for our buggy. As for the front KYB GR2's, I gave them away and run cheap oil shocks. couldn't be more happy with the ride in ALL conditions on and off road.

Cheers,
John & Sonya Kieslich
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5150bossman
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Re: Shock survey!!!

Post by 5150bossman »

We've been using the KYB GR-2's for years, and think they work just fine. Even though they are gas charged, they are not too stiff for how we use the buggy. Part of the key to ride comfort is airing down properly before going out if you go off-road. It makes a world of difference. :mrgreen:
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jhkinca
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Re: Shock survey!!!

Post by jhkinca »

I run 12 PSI front and back all the time; on dirt roads the GR2's would not soak up the the little sharp edge bumps and was just too harsh. The switch to oil up front made for 100% improvement in ride quality. Our buggy has been driven by many other club members and I always hear how well it rides and handles. That said, no 2 buggies are alike and they all respond differently.
John & Sonya Kieslich
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GotManx
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Re: Shock survey!!!

Post by GotManx »

I'm another vote for the Bilstein 4600, it's what I run on El Gusano. I've run KYB's in the past, but the Bilstein's have better dampening and definitely better rebound, a lot less pogo action. They also ride well on the street with 10 - 12 pounds air front tires and 14 - 16 pounds air in the rear tires.
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jhkinca
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Re: Shock survey!!!

Post by jhkinca »

GotManx wrote:I'm another vote for the Bilstein 4600, it's what I run on El Gusano. I've run KYB's in the past, but the Bilstein's have better dampening and definitely better rebound, a lot less pogo action. They also ride well on the street with 10 - 12 pounds air front tires and 14 - 16 pounds air in the rear tires.

Better watch out the next time El Gusano is parked next to Lil Blue... I will have a 17mm wrench handy and do a temp swap :shh: :)
John & Sonya Kieslich
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GotManx
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Re: Shock survey!!!

Post by GotManx »

If you try them - you won't give them back.
lastmanx
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Re: Shock survey!!!

Post by lastmanx »

I use stock oil shocks on front ball joint beam, with no stabilizer bar. the tires are P225/15. The rear 1968 type swing axle uses bugpack type coil over shocks, adjusted to its lowest (weakest) setting. The spring plates have been indexed, so the shocks act as basic oil shocks, but have a beefier "look". the chrome is all painted flat black (a bitch to clean and polish). The reason for coil overs is cost , they are cheaper than oil shocks without the coil over. The rear tires are 33x12.5 Dunlop a/t. I run 18 psi front and 20 psi rear for street. for beach sand I run 6.5 psi front and rear. Never been stuck. I air up for street as low pressure at highway speeds is hell on the radial bands within the tire. All four shocks work well with tire rebound, allowing the torsion springs to be the actual suspension and ride comfort. The front beam torsion springs were new. I have found a link pin is stiffer than a ball joint, a four joint rear torsion springs limit the rear tire to a 31 dia tire, both work fine. any front beam with a stabilizer bar stiffens harshly and compromises greatly its independent action off road (fact). there is no need to reinvent the wheel much of this info is history backed up by Bruce himself.
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