Idling at 30°

[Old-Towd]

My 1915 is running great the odd thing is it's idling at 30° and in full advance at 50° . Checked with a strobe light, double checked it with a second strobe light. If you try to bring the timing back down it will stumble at 15° and will not start with a static timing of 7 1/2 degrees. Checked to see if the keyway broke on the degree wheel it was okay. Tried two different 009 distributors both with new rotor, points, condenser and cap. Number one on the distributor is sitting in its normal place with rotor pointing on distributor hash mark. Checked for Top Dead Ctr.,#1 with degree wheel sitting on top dead center too. If you never checked the timing you would never know anything was wrong. I have never ran across a situation like this.

[pgrandia]

Could it be that the distributor drive pinion is one tooth off at the crank shaft.

It's happened to me...

[Old-Towd]

pgrandia actually with the 009 distributor you can drop the drive pinion in any configuration. On our VW thing Number 1 is in number 2 location of a type one. Drop a 009 distributor in the VW thing and number one goes back like a type one location. The VW Thing has two vacuum modules it's a push pull system and has less room to turn. The reason VW has you drop it in a specific spot is to accommodate a vacuum distributor. With the vacuum module your limited how far you can turn it, so it needs to be in a specific spot. An 009 can turn all the way around. All you have to do at 7 1/2 degrees is make sure number 1 plug wire is plugged into the cap above the rotor and lightly turning the distributor will dial in the timing. If you Google installation of distributor drive pinion and click on images ( Google will show just photos ) you will see some factory photos with the pinion drive slot would be horizontal with the case and other photos where the slot is slightly angled toward the fuel pump. As the drive pinion drops into the case with the angled gears before it totally seats it will turn into place. So if you want it horizontal with the case you need to drop it in an upward angle and when it seats it will go horizontal. Most of my engines are pointing slightly towards the fuel pump. Why this doesn't matter is turning the distributor compensates for location.

[jsturtlebuggy]

Jay,
What cam is in the engine? Has it been this way since it was built? It sound like the cam is retarded. Do you have a adjustable cam gear? Do you hear any kind of rattle coming from engine?

[cbounds]

I have the same problem with my burro, did all of the above as well, checked the valve timing at it is all correct. The motor runs great @ 50deg advanced doesn't run hot? I have have asked many of people with no explanation? I have been out on 4 hard desert trips that way, with no issues

[Old-Towd]

Hey Joseph, It has one of Top Line's mild cams in it, no this problem just cropped up. No adjustable cam and no funny noises, sounds great. I'm going to install a new Bosh coil just for giggles. Jon at Top Line Parts hasn't personally witnessed Wrecker's problem but suggests maybe my Dual Kadron are idling too low, he thinks if I idle the carbs up then the engine would handle lower timing instead of stumbling and wanting to die. I'm going to try this but I will be surprised at least to say if it cures it. Every time I come up against Jon's ideas he's usually right. Thanks Joseph for your input.

[Old-Towd]

cbounds sorry you have the same symptoms we were thinking the same thing should just drive it and watch engine temperature but the shade tree mechanic in me needs to know.

[Ed-Chenal]

You and Lee need to go down to Saint Joseph's and have your Buggies Blessed.

[Lee-Hoffer]

Here's some interesting reading on distributor drive pinion orientation:

http://bobhooversblog.blogspot.com/2006 ... an_24.html

Jay, when you say this problem "just cropped up", does that mean you were able to set the timing according to specs at one time? Are you using the same timing light and pulley now that you did then? What got you to check the timing in the first place?

Ed's right, our buggies DO need to be blessed. I've been ignoring the inevitable and am riding the motorcycle instead. I guess I will need to pull the buggy out of the garage eventually and see how she runs. And for how long...

Lee

[Old-Towd]

Lee thanks interesting reading, #1 does that mean you were able to set the timing according to specs at one time? Yes this is a fairly new engine but going to big bear a couple years I've change the timing back and forth. I bought a new programmable timing light but also use my old Sears Strobelite and they both read the same, no change in pulley ( it's a degree wheel ) #2 What got you to check the timing in the first place? Took out the compufire distributor and replaced it with a 009 Point distributor , Plus I wanted to try out my new fancy timing light. My explanation of the pinion drive being installed in any configuration with 009 distributor Is only to prove the point the engine wood run, I don't recommend this I believe in installing the distributor its correct position plus with Bob Hoover explanation of distributor oiling hole alignment thats one more reason to install it correctly.

[pgrandia]

Maybe your advance springs are worn out. Too loose?

[Lee-Hoffer]

I would agree with Pete that something is up with the distributor, but you said you tried two different ones with the same results.

I would try what Jon suggested and bump the idle up on your carbs. As in WAY up at first, then start bringing the timing down and see if you can get it in spec. Stranger things have happened.

Lee

[pgrandia]

Jay, It could also be that the distributor drive cam coupler is 180 degrees out. If this is the case. it will throw the timing numbers out of sync.
If you look at the picture the rotor on top is pointing straight and the drive cam coupler is not on the same centerline. It's pitched off at an angle.
This is enough to give you false readings no matter how the distributor drive pinion is oriented on the cam.

[Lee-Hoffer]

Considering how crappy the workmanship on 009 distributors can be, it wouldn't surprise me if they were both put together that way. It's about the only explanation for why they are both acting so strange while the Compufire unit didn't have this issue.

Lee

[Old-Towd]

Definitely a lot of good thinking going on around here but the first point distributor I put in Wrecker with the 30° idle timing I tried it in Christy's 1973 VW Thing and it works normal in her car typical timing.