NEW REVISION OF MANXCLUB BYLAWS

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rzeller
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Location: Wilmington, NC

Re: NEW REVISION OF MANXCLUB BYLAWS

Post by rzeller »

1856 wrote:Vincent, Chicago Joe, and I along with others clearly had question and remarks, that you failed to respond on this post and other posts on this blog.

You failed your leadership duties when you negated to provide the transparency needed for changes of the Bylaws, and the other earlier changes you made(ARTICLE XVII), to the entire Membership. Our Clubs state and federal nonprofit status is based upon conditions set forth in the 501 C7 it clearly states this club is for the benefit of its members.

By not taking the changes, of the Club,s Bylaws, to the entire Membership you denied a majority of Club Members representation as defined in the 501 C7 nonprofit state & federal statues.

This Club was formed in the USA perhaps you are having a difficult understanding the difference between our two countries. Here we do not deny representation, we strive to to be transparent
and provide answers when questioned.

Oh, yes I was one of the users who through the trouble to update their profile .

Mark Bryant
Founding Club President
Mark,

I have held back numerous times responding to your opinions of what “should be done” based on your and, as you’ve stated, other’s personal feelings regarding the club’s bylaws and leadership. I cannot remain silent any longer since I believe you have stepped over the line of decency or professionalism with your condescending and insulting comments. I fear you are ultimately going to damage the image and brand of the club that I care for.

Your claims of lack of transparency are unfounded. Your claims that any and all changes to the bylaws requires the member’s approval are wrong based on the club’s governing rules/regulations/bylaws.

The Manx Club is a California-based Nonprofit Mutual Benefit Corporation and therefore is governed by California Corporations Code, specifically under Part 3 7110-8910. Article 7150 (a) which allows for the board to adopt, amend, or repeal bylaws. http://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces ... &article=5. Additionally, Manx Club Bylaws, Article XVII: BY LAWS: INSPECTION AND AMENDMENT, SECTION 2: AMENDMENTS, (b) As an aside, this provision in the club’s bylaws has been in effect at least since the last adoption of the bylaws on 1/25/14 when Chicago Joe was on the board. The recent revisions were done in accordance with the governing bylaws in effect (dated 1/25/14). I’ve been trying to find your previous comments regarding the adoption of the previous version of the bylaws, since the same issues you list would have been relevant then. Please direct me to them.

You have stated “under the clubs 501c7 nonprofit status this organization operates solely for the "Benefit of Its Members", there for Only the membership has the powers to amend the clubs Bylaws”, however after a lot of research I have not found a specific government reference document (e.g. California Corporations Code, specifically under Part 3 7110-8910 or IRS Exempt Organizations Determinations Manual https://www.irs.gov/irm/part7/irm_07-025-007.html or in the Manx Club Bylaws that supports the statement that “Only the membership has the powers to amend the club Bylaws”. To demonstrate that your comments are factual and not opinion, please list your legal reference(s) as I did. There may be other members like me, interested in reading them instead of taking your word for it.

In none of the legal documents, including our own club bylaws, is there any requirement to notify the membership of changes or ask for feedback regarding any changes to the existing bylaws. The current Board of Directors unanimously decided that the recent revisions should be and would be opened to the membership before adoption. The board advertised publically the review period (Apr 22 – May 6, 2016) on the official club forum. Those members who wished to review and comment on the changes did so – you included. As a “fact” a number of the suggestions/recommendations were adopted in the finalized version of the bylaws. For transparency, all of the comments and board responses were published here: http://www.manxclub.com/pdf/bylaws2016-feedback.pdf Again, there was no legal requirement to provide a review, feedback, or response but YOUR Board of Directors felt an ethical obligation to do so. As an added level of transparency, the membership was invited to attend the open board meeting at this year’s Big Bear event. Did you attend and comment? I didn’t see any indication in the official meeting minutes that you did. Are they in error?

As the club’s Membership Chairperson I invite you to run for the Board of Directors (again) so that you may help guide the Manx Club in a positive direction similar to those of us that are volunteering our time currently.
Last edited by rzeller on Fri Dec 02, 2016 2:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Removed duplicated words.
Bud Zeller
Wilmington, NC
Manx Club Member Since 2004 - #2475
Member of the Manx Club's Long Haul League - 2015
2018 NORRA Mexican 1000 - #1356 - Bad News Racing
2022 NORRA Mexican 1000 - #3347 - Bad News Racing & ACME Companies
2023 NORRA Mexican 1000 - #1356 - Bad News Racing
'68 Meyers Manx - M1996F826S
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Gary0302
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Re: NEW REVISION OF MANXCLUB BYLAWS

Post by Gary0302 »

Chicago Joe wrote:My concerns on the By-Laws changes were plainly stated in a previous post.
I received a quick response and most of my concerns were addressed and made part of the process to change the Manx Club By-Laws in April 2016.

There may be a few concerns for me in terms of some policies/methods that are now being followed, but for now I will keep close consul, and pick the battles to be fought. For example:
* Why do we continue to use Facebook, as it is not an authorized Manx Club venue?
* Why is it necessary to visit up to 6 sites to get detailed details of all Manx Club Events?
* Why are the BOD meeting minutes not posted in the VIP or other secured section of the Manx Club Forum?
* Why are the changes of member information, made on membership renewals, & emails not posted to the Membership database in a timely basis?
* Why does the Manx Club not have a detained budget that is followed?
Hi Joe,

I missed you at this past October's Manx on the Banx; I hope you are doing well. As we both know, I have been and on-again/off-again member in the past, but since I am active now, I guess I have as much right to chime in as anyone. I guess my first question to you is this; who used the restroom in your breakfast cereal? I have my issues with Facebook as well, maybe more that you can imagine, but it is a viable tool in today's high tech form of communications. Why would the Facebook option NOT be used; are you suggesting that all Manx Club related subjects be completely banned from Facebook, never to be spoken of again?

I also realize that your second question above is either directly or indirectly at me, since I occasionally provide "microsite" space, as you have put it, in order to offer a more detailed option on certain Manx Club upcoming events. (For those NOT in-the-know, check out http://www.eastcoastdunebuggies.com; enjoy!). I consider myself in a unique position to be able to create these pages, totally free of charge, while also providing updates in a relatively fast manner (usually same day). In a small sense, this is my way of attempting to give back to the club. So what is the problem with that; are you conserving mouse clicks?

Years ago, when I was new to the Manx Club and new to forums in general, I considered the original Manx Club forum to be a very valuable tool in assisting me in my first (and only) dune buggy build. Despite that, I detested the way a few of the members would trash non-Manx owners; we were treated like second class citizens. In my ignorance at the time, I thought that was how the membership at large felt, so I chose not to renew my membership when it was time to do so. You, Joe, were one of the "holier-than-thous" that continued to browbeat those that you considered "the unwashed". (Yeah, I got my licks back in to you and a few others for that way of thinking, yes?). Luckily, I found my way over to thesamba.com, where the grass was somewhat greener.

So, from what I can remember, the original Manx Club forum met a slow death (I wonder why?). Since your original venue was no more, you yourself slimed your way over to thesamba.com, bringing your bitterness with you (along with creating TWO separate usernames; don't try to deny it).

Looking back, I actually make a conscious decision NOT to attend the first Manx Club sponsored Manx on the Banx, because I truly believed that the majority of the club members would not have appreciated my presence, and I was not about to put anyone in an uncomfortable position. What I discovered, later on, was that (once again, in my ignorance) I had let a few sour grapes influence my way of thinking, and you are one of the head raisins, my friend, if not the Big Kahuna himself.

Meeting you face-to-face, it's like you were a different person. Where does all of this online and behind-the-scenes bitterness come from? Personally, I think its a shame that a club of this nature has to even worry about bylaws, budgets, this-that-and-the-other, but unfortunately, they are all necessary evils in today's society for a group of this kind. To me, the club resources can be good source of information, and the events allow for some good fellowship. Unfortunately, it's not as simple as that.

And to Mark Bryant/1856; why are you complaining about the fact that the Board of Directors have made changes to the bylaws when it clearly states in the bylaws that the Board of Directors are allowed to make changes to the bylaws? That makes no sense. Do you eat breakfast on a regular basis at Joe's house?

(b) BY BOARD OF DIRECTORS: The board of directors may adopt, amend or repeal by-laws. To become
effective, a proposed amendment of change must receive a majority vote of the directors and a two- thirds (2/3) majority vote of the directors present at the next regular or special meeting of the board of
directors.
Gary Holbrook
Manx Club Member #2831
East Coast Dune Buggies
Coastal North Carolina

"It's a buggy not a space shuttle...." Dale M.

Check out my skydiving, bungee jumping, and dune buggy videos on Youtube
Chicago Joe
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Re: NEW REVISION OF MANXCLUB BYLAWS

Post by Chicago Joe »

Vincent,

Thank you for the timely response.

I cannot agree with 2 statements in particular.
* The correction/update of member information in the Manx Club database. I started sending a specific change in my annual renewal information in July 2014. As of October 01, 2016, the change has not been completed. 3.25 years is not a timely response!
* If the membership is not made aware of a meeting, then it is impossible for them to monitor the results/minutes of said meeting. Lack of publication of the minutes will appear that the meetings are secret meetings.
Joe Spittler - 1118
Chicago Joe
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Re: NEW REVISION OF MANXCLUB BYLAWS

Post by Chicago Joe »

Mark,
Bud,

I believe that the Manx Club is a California not for profit social club, that is organized under the 501 c 7 requirements. You have mentioned it is a 501 c 3 not for profit organization. Please remember that there are significant differences between a 501 c 3 and a 501 c 7. They are not even close to being the same, and must not be confused with each other.
Joe Spittler - 1118
Chicago Joe
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Re: NEW REVISION OF MANXCLUB BYLAWS

Post by Chicago Joe »

Gary,
"Do you eat breakfast on a regular basis at Joe's house?" What does eating at my house have to do with this, or do you just put my name on all things you do not like. Your attitude and comments are totally uncalled for.
Joe Spittler - 1118
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manxvair
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Location: Mohave Valley, AZ

Re: NEW REVISION OF MANXCLUB BYLAWS

Post by manxvair »

Chicago Joe wrote:Vincent,

Thank you for the timely response.

I cannot agree with 2 statements in particular.
* The correction/update of member information in the Manx Club database. I started sending a specific change in my annual renewal information in July 2014. As of October 01, 2016, the change has not been completed. 3.25 years is not a timely response!
Joe,
Please explain exactly what update you are referring to, You continually make these accusations but every time we double check what is on record we find the information is up to date! either post what you want here or send an e mail and cc the entire BOD.
Mike Dario
Mohave Valley, AZ
Manx Club #957
Manx Club President

Tow'd (Hers)
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Manxter Dual Sport #30 Baja Edition #2 (Ours)
Resorter #19-Fuscia(under construction)
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GotManx
Posts: 268
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Location: Escondido, CA

Re: NEW REVISION OF MANXCLUB BYLAWS

Post by GotManx »

Seems like some people need a buggy ride.

What do you think causes more harm to the club? A few little changes in wording by the people the club voted in to serve voluntarily or bitching about some little changes on a public forum for all to see?

Go out, get in your buggies and go for a ride!
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joescoolcustoms
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Location: Saint Albans, WV

Re: NEW REVISION OF MANXCLUB BYLAWS

Post by joescoolcustoms »

As anyone who actually knows me, I am not tech savvy, and never intend to be, I get by well enough without it. A company flip phone, and laptop at home are all I need.

Why would the MC not use other sites to promote itself? Even thinking about limiting MC associations to one site is utter nonsense and reverts back to the ages of when the MC appeared to be a secretive society of snobs and as Chicago Joe has put it, the "Higher Up Muckity Mucks" back when he was a MC Office holder.

The expansion of the MC in the last four years has exploded like never before in it's history and having various forums to offer availability to potential members has been one of the reasons. As Mark stated, "benefit of it's members", is a benefit to me as a member to expose the club to potential new and various members, and not die a withering death of old memberitis. New blood will be the only thing that carries the club into the future.

Furthermore, As a US citizen, a MC paying member in good standing, I will post what ever I want, where I want, when I want, and God be Dammed if anyone will stop me. I have posted more build threads on this very forum than anyone else, the pictures I have stored here for others to use is in the top 5 of any posters. I post them at will on other sites too with the intent of encouraging others to build and drive their buggies, which is our hobby.

Everything needed to attend any MC event is posted on this very site. If you are too lazy to look at other sites, you can get all that info here. Once at the event, you can get informed of any fast acting changes by crawling away from a laptop and out of a car to actually socialize and hear what is going on with no additional tech savvy needed.

Be a part of the future, not a pothole along the way.
lastmanx
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Location: Ashland Massachusettes

Re: NEW REVISION OF MANXCLUB BYLAWS

Post by lastmanx »

i'm just a little confused which is normal. are manx club members now supposed to go to the facebook site or use this one? I don't care either way but it would explain why not much happens here. just please clarify. thank you.
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joescoolcustoms
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Re: NEW REVISION OF MANXCLUB BYLAWS

Post by joescoolcustoms »

lastmanx wrote:i'm just a little confused which is normal. are manx club members now supposed to go to the facebook site or use this one? I don't care either way but it would explain why not much happens here. just please clarify. thank you.
IMO, use which ever you like.

For me, FB sucks because within a few hours, the post and pictures are gone. Here they stay and become "history" that can be researched. Our culture has become "instant viewers", and I can see why more people use FB than a fixed forum.
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manxvair
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Re: NEW REVISION OF MANXCLUB BYLAWS

Post by manxvair »

lastmanx wrote:i'm just a little confused which is normal. are manx club members now supposed to go to the facebook site or use this one? I don't care either way but it would explain why not much happens here. just please clarify. thank you.
The face book site is "NOT" an official club site, it is moderated by a club member but the Manx Club does not administer it.
Mike Dario
Mohave Valley, AZ
Manx Club #957
Manx Club President

Tow'd (Hers)
Manxvair (His)
Manxter Dual Sport #30 Baja Edition #2 (Ours)
Resorter #19-Fuscia(under construction)
lastmanx
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Location: Ashland Massachusettes

Re: NEW REVISION OF MANXCLUB BYLAWS

Post by lastmanx »

thank you for clearing this up. keep smiling (or bickering if it makes you happy) :|
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