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PostPosted: Sat Apr 04, 2015 9:12 pm 
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Well David, you can have a discussion with Brian on that subject, but I will bet a nice sum on the outcome answer!

Sand Tech 101. These are not hard fast, only way to do it suggestions. The suggestions are based on reading about body work, asking questions, watching others that are good in what they do, listening and then the 75% of it is just basic "get-R-done" experience. Several people have helped educate me as well as screwing up about as much paint as humanly possible.

First, how to sand. The only time to use your bare hand and sand paper is in a tight corner or on very small parts. Otherwise, you will make a straight panel or surface wavey. Sanding much of any surface area needs to be done with some sort of back up to work toward the desired shape, or not loose the desired shape.

Several sanding forms are commercially available, and you can custom make some for specific shapes.

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The larger the sanding block that you can use, that is close to the desired shape, the straighter the panel will turn out being. Above are a few of the blocks I use. 10 inch flat, 6 inch flat, 2 inch round and a soft(er) foam rubber block. The hard ones kind of explain them selves and typically I only use them for dry sanding. The black/grey foam rubber is good to use once you switch to wet sanding. The black side is harder than the grey side for use over several shaped surfaces.

I start out sanding with 80 grit to prep a surface for good paint adhesion. I typically use a DA Sander (Dual Action), as seen in posts above to prep 90% of the body, quickly. Then focus on the "trouble" spots, spots that require body work including the fiberglass repairs seen elsewhere in this thread. Once I have those areas 90% knocked out, I prime those areas. Then spot work those areas. Once I get the trouble areas to 98% done, I move on to the entire body, and lay down several coats of primer over the entire surface. Then more sanding.

Here is where the "blocking the body" phrase comes from. Using the sanding blocks with 220 grit sand paper, sand the complete body, except for the edges. In these pictures you can see a little darker spot in the primer. It is a low or shallow spot on the body that the sandpaper is not touching as it is passed over.

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Since I already knew it was there, (in the area of the large hole that was hacked into the hood for a air scoop), I applied several coats of primer in that area anticipating what was needed to get rid of it. Keep sanding with that straight block and it will take the higher area down to that low spot, basically filling that shallow spot with primer.

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That low shallow spot is now gone, and because of using a flat block, not my hand, that area is super flat and smooth. No waves will be seen once the final paint is applied.

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Some of these photo's may be hard to see, and you can go to my Gallery, under "Loretta", click on the picture and it will enlarge to a point you may be able to see the area.

Next are some "orange peal" areas that can be seen as darker spots peppered about in the primer. This all needs to be sanded out or it will give a built up texture and show up under the clear as a rough area.

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I sand in a cross hatch pattern in long as possible strokes to even out the highs/lows and not spot sand. Spot sanding will create shallow areas that also show up in waves in the final paint. Sanding one way until all the scratches are in one direction, then changing direction and sanding until all scratches run that direction is a really good way to remove high spots and get a very smooth straight surface. Lots of primer end up on the floor.

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I sand the primer off until I can see hints of the original color showing up faintly, then stop. If I still have low spots, more primer is needed. If I have high spots that sanded through, then maybe you need to grind that high spot out/down and do again.

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Always sand towards a edge, but not over the edge. You will wipe out that edge profile and crate a flat spot that will not be seen until the top coat of paint is applied, then it is too late. Leave the edge alone and come back to address it on your final wet sanding before shooting the base coat of color. If you wipe that original profile of the edge off, it is a PITA to re-establish.

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The flat areas were sanded with the flat 10 inch block, the con-caved area on the sides was sanded with the round block.

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This hood, even with several large fiberglass repairs, is now very straight and flat. Now that my arms have rested, I will vacuum the dust and switch to sanding with the foam rubber block and wet 320 grit paper. At this point, all body work is done and now it is time to prep for the paint that will follow. The 320 grit wet sanding will only be used to remove the scratches of the 220 grit paper. If any areas pop through, I will spot prime those areas, let dry, then wet sand with 400 grit paper for the final time before laying the base coat on.

Sounds easy, right? It is. It just takes time. Time to let the coats fully cure before sanding, time to sand fully and not rush the job. If you set aside X amount of hours on a weekend to sand and paint a car, you are asking for mistakes or missed areas. Slow down and let the body show you it's hidden secrets. I have already found a bunch of small mold mistakes that are now gone. If I paint tomorrow, good. If I do not get far enough to paint tomorrow, good. When it is ready and I have a window of weather, energy left, it will get painted.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 04, 2015 9:23 pm 
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Location: Kingsland, GA
wvbowtieman wrote:
Looking really good. Maybe we should paint that body a darker color? I'm thinking maybe a MOSS GREEN Metal Flake? :shifty:


It took me a minute to figure that out, but NO! Funny though, as a green metallic was my original color choice. Lol. I do owe you a dinner for helping talk Joe into painting it!

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(Loretta) Manx # M2940D910E on customized 1970 chassis that has been "Wheelerized" by Joescoolcustoms
(Scarlett) Manx Resorter #12 (R0012B931S) on 1969 chassis.
(Gunny) Manx 2 # A0202A035E
(Bruiser) Tow'd # TF327D953N
(Unnamed) Manx 2 (Body Only) #1339
(Unnamed) Manx 2 (Body Only) (no serial number tag)
Club Member # 4436

Loretta: http://www.manxclub.com/forum/viewtopic ... t=3365Manx
Scarlett: viewtopic.php?f=82&t=3745&p=24983#p24983


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 04, 2015 11:47 pm 
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Location: Outer Banks NC 27954
AWESOME Work as always Joe!

Let me know if I can help with any questions on the flake job. I think it may be easier with the .008 flake than with the .015 flake.

Nice work with the tire and battery well repair! (easier than making the part then cutting and fitting)

Vince


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2015 8:25 pm 
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Location: Saint Albans, WV
Thank you Vince! I have intently listened to you on every question on flaking a body and have also had many discussions with Chris and David. The three of you have helped me immensely and thank you three for the advise and help.

After the dry sanding with 220 grit paper and a hard block, all the high and low spots were gone. Now on to wet sanding with 320 grit paper to remove the sanding scratches from the 220 paper.

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Some sand scratches still remain, but most are gone.

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One last coat of primer, thinned so it lays down flatter. Then a light wet sand with 400 grit paper for the final surface prep.

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And then the first coat of the base. Single stage Lazer Red Metalic.

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Then 2 more coats for even color.

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Very pretty color with heavy metalic's in the paint. At this point, it could go straight to clear and be done, and look nice. But....

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At about 75% coverage of 008 Brilliant Fire Red flake in clear. Approximately 2.5 ounces by volume mixed into 9 ounces of clear by volume.

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The flake is hard for my cheap camera to capture, but Wow! I continued until in the sun, with a magnifying glass, I could no longer see any base coat. Ended up using 7.5 ounces of flake by volume and 27 ounces of clear. Lumpy, felt like spraying dirt through a 1.4 tip, but looks great in the sun!

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It was lumpy and severe orange peal texture. Let cure overnight and then sprayed 16 coats of clear on top of the flake. About 2/3 of the orange peal texture is gone, but Bam! It looks great inside or outside.

70 feet away and it sparkles in the sun like a Ruby.

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Comes close to the original finish. The original it a slight more brown. Could be due to age, different base coat, poly instead of metal flake.

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The body is next, same process of sanding, base, flake and clear. Both will sit and cure for 12 to 14 days before sanding/buffing/polishing.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2015 8:32 pm 
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I am amazed!! Words alone can't express how awesome that looks! :clap:

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(Loretta) Manx # M2940D910E on customized 1970 chassis that has been "Wheelerized" by Joescoolcustoms
(Scarlett) Manx Resorter #12 (R0012B931S) on 1969 chassis.
(Gunny) Manx 2 # A0202A035E
(Bruiser) Tow'd # TF327D953N
(Unnamed) Manx 2 (Body Only) #1339
(Unnamed) Manx 2 (Body Only) (no serial number tag)
Club Member # 4436

Loretta: http://www.manxclub.com/forum/viewtopic ... t=3365Manx
Scarlett: viewtopic.php?f=82&t=3745&p=24983#p24983


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2015 9:07 pm 
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Looks beautiful….

Few Questions:

Did you mix the flake with the clear?

What type of clear?

How long does 14 coats of clear take? How much flash time between coats?

Is that pictured finish the final coat that you are going to sand?

Amazing what need to be done to replicate the final finish.

Dave


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2015 9:40 pm 
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Thanks Dave!

Yes, flake mixed in the clear at ratio I listed. 0.008 flake is pretty easy to spray through a gun.

A high quality, high solids, catalyzed Acrylic Urethane Clear. Sherwinn Williams Automotive Clear and base coat paint. Same as what I used on my Puzzle Manx.

I let the coat flash 10 minutes between coats. 2 coats per mixed paint cup. 14 liquid ounces per paint cup. 16 total coats of clear on the hood. Total start to finish cleaning paint gun time was about 2.5 hours.

The last few photos are the finished sprayed surface that will get sanded, buffed and polished.

Not much more work that a standard good quality paint job. A little more final sanding due to the texture and one more step in spraying the flake.

The waste I encountered was about 2 to 3 percent including cleaning the paint gun. Here is the exact spot I sprayed the primer, sanded, primer, sanded, 3 coats base, 6 coats clear mixed with flake, then the 16 coats of clear. Not very much mess.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2015 10:22 pm 
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Just to be sure.... You only put the flakes in the first clear coat? Not all 14?

When Vince demonstrated for us, he shot clear, then shot dry flakes on the clear immediately after. I am assuming that is how Vince also did Bud's, but it is really just a guess as I don't remember from that thread. I am just comparing the results.

Calvin


Last edited by calvin on Fri Apr 24, 2015 3:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2015 12:27 am 
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Location: Saint Albans, WV
calvin wrote:
Just to be sure.... You only put the flakes in the first clear coat? Not all 14?

When Vince demonstrated for us, he shot clear, then show dry flakes on the clear immediately after. I am assuming that is how Vince also did Bud's, but it is really just a guess as I don't remember from that thread. I am just comparing the results.

Calvin


Calvin, the flake was mixed into the clear I sprayed. So, it has 6 total coats of flake/clear mixed sprayed onto the hood.

Cured about 20 hours, then I sprayed 16 coats of pure clear on top. The 16 top coats is thick enough so I do not sand through and into the flake getting it smooth.


Vince demonstrated the dry method at MOTB, and that is how he did Bud's body. I used the wet method where the flake is mixed with clear and sprayed. Brian wanted the smallest flake, 0.008 flake, which is pretty easy to spray through a gun. The 0.015 Vince uses is right at twice the size and a little harder to spray, but works well using the dry method, as his results show.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2015 1:04 am 
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Joe...i don't think dorothys slippers were that shiny?can't wait to see it buffed and polished
Top notch job as usual Joe!

Tony

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2015 1:51 am 
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joescoolcustoms wrote:
Thanks Dave!

Yes, flake mixed in the clear at ratio I listed. 0.008 flake is pretty easy to spray through a gun.

A high quality, high solids, catalyzed Acrylic Urethane Clear. Sherwinn Williams Automotive Clear and base coat paint. Same as what I used on my Puzzle Manx.

I let the coat flash 10 minutes between coats. 2 coats per mixed paint cup. 14 liquid ounces per paint cup. 16 total coats of clear on the hood. Total start to finish cleaning paint gun time was about 2.5 hours.

The last few photos are the finished sprayed surface that will get sanded, buffed and polished.

Not much more work that a standard good quality paint job. A little more final sanding due to the texture and one more step in spraying the flake.

The waste I encountered was about 2 to 3 percent including cleaning the paint gun. Here is the exact spot I sprayed the primer, sanded, primer, sanded, 3 coats base, 6 coats clear mixed with flake, then the 16 coats of clear. Not very much mess.

Image


Thank you…..amazing work.

Does the small flake look much different from the larger?


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2015 7:12 am 
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Quote:
Does the small flake look much different from the larger?


Well, I cannot answer that question at this point. Since I have never before directly compared the two side-by-side, buggy-to-buggy and do not have one close to compare to, it is hard to say. I can say that I think this smaller flake shows more of the color.

It was right at dusk, my dusk-to-dawn light had started on the garage corner when I brought the hood in for the night. My wife Darlene, was marveling how wild and fluid it looked in that light, how it appeared to dance as I carried it into the garage.

I thought I was sold on the 0.015 flake, and in the back of my mind wanted to use the 15 on Loretta, but now, I am really liking the smaller stuff. For a lack of a better way to describe it, the difference, to me, is the difference between BAM! and WOW!, or flash and classic. Darlene is a "ask your opinion first, then states hers" kind of person. She asked me what I thought about repainting my Puzzle Manx with flake. My response was, when it starts showing more "use" on it, it may just happen in a similar 008 orange flake. That way, my existing paint is the perfect base already.

So, in the midst of sanding on the body, arms hurting, taking a break, I hear that sound that only a VW AC engine makes come up my hill and down my street. But the tone is unfamiliar to me, since my ears are tuned into all my friends VW's. I jump up out of my office and come through the garage to see a really cool site!

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An original Early tagged Manx. Holy crap Batman! A literal trip back in time came up to see Loretta. A fellow local VW buddy had bought this Manx from up in the middle of Michigan from a wrecking yard that got it from an estate sale. The original Owner passed, and an estate auction happened, wrecking yard bought the buggy and listed it on CraigsList. My buddy's son spotted it, made the trip. It is original Gell Coat, Original 1 3/8 bolted flanged heder, Original slotted head bolts holding the body down, rolled lip reinforced pan mounting edge, all the original body brackets, original Black Dietz 820 headlights with solid light cups, England Lucas glass front turn signals, ABS Dash. Very nice shape wide five chrome Appliance rims with all 4 bias ply tires. And other than three extra holes, a almost virgin body. Came with a holley bugspray carb. And I guess true to the climate it was owned in, it has a functioning Gas Heater out of a Ghia installed up under the dash!!!

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The ABS dash was not cracked, but had a hole on the pass side cut in for a Sparkomatic 8 track tape deck and the left side has a "glove box" pocket installed.

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Original sidewinder with bolt flange, '64 light housing.

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Original shock-to-body brackets and the forward torsion housing-to-body bracket.

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Even has the back up metal plate for the roll bar.

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A cool trip back in time for me!


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2015 4:09 pm 
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WOW! that is amazing!

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 08, 2015 3:57 am 
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Location: Kingsland, GA
What a great find! Hope he's going to keep that one as is!

_________________
(Loretta) Manx # M2940D910E on customized 1970 chassis that has been "Wheelerized" by Joescoolcustoms
(Scarlett) Manx Resorter #12 (R0012B931S) on 1969 chassis.
(Gunny) Manx 2 # A0202A035E
(Bruiser) Tow'd # TF327D953N
(Unnamed) Manx 2 (Body Only) #1339
(Unnamed) Manx 2 (Body Only) (no serial number tag)
Club Member # 4436

Loretta: http://www.manxclub.com/forum/viewtopic ... t=3365Manx
Scarlett: viewtopic.php?f=82&t=3745&p=24983#p24983


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PostPosted: Mon May 18, 2015 6:37 pm 
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Location: Kingsland, GA
Now that Loretta has been shown to the world, Joe will continue to update the rest of the build as he finds time. He does have an epic adventure of ECVW to get ready for.

For those of you that have blown up my email, texting, and facebook messages asking me why he wasn't posting pictures, I sort of apologize. Ok, not really, but it sounds good, right? Anyway... It was something that Joe and I discussed. If you've seen his previous build threads, you will realize he doesn't show the completed buggies before they are displayed at an event.

I will post the details of the trip and pictures after Joe finishes the build part, so that it all flows, just like her lines.

If you've followed this, and haven't seen pictures yet, search my pictures here, and you'll find some!

_________________
(Loretta) Manx # M2940D910E on customized 1970 chassis that has been "Wheelerized" by Joescoolcustoms
(Scarlett) Manx Resorter #12 (R0012B931S) on 1969 chassis.
(Gunny) Manx 2 # A0202A035E
(Bruiser) Tow'd # TF327D953N
(Unnamed) Manx 2 (Body Only) #1339
(Unnamed) Manx 2 (Body Only) (no serial number tag)
Club Member # 4436

Loretta: http://www.manxclub.com/forum/viewtopic ... t=3365Manx
Scarlett: viewtopic.php?f=82&t=3745&p=24983#p24983


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